The Witch's Grave Yard in the Back Waters Alabama

[ancient whitelighter]

I would love to read some more stories about your experiences at the ol' witches graveyard! Ya know, I tried to find some information about Robert C. Tyler - I think that's the brig. general who supposedly did those dirty deeds - I wonder if the stories about what happened are true. If they are, nobody's talking

[adrian]

there are a ton of dirty stories that weren't documented here in West Point. not even the official trials here were documented, if were they're no longer here. Between the Laniers, Scotts, Carters, and Tyler's, this down has a ton of secrets i'd love to crawl into

[Belladonna]

Oh I want to go!
The atmosphere in that place must be incredible!

I do grave rubbings too, and I haunt the old cemeteries to see what I can find on the oldest headstones.

That sounds like a perfect place.

[adrian]

oh this place has its own enviroment all right lol

[VanHelsingStandIn]

Nice story, and not trying to be a jerk, but thats not quite what happened. Tyler was a native of Maryland and had strong feelings regarding states rights. When the war started he fought bravely and well for the South.

He was also wounded several times. He wound up in the west Georgia area of La Grange and West Point which today is about an hour or so south and west of Atlanta. It sits near Lake West Point, which is a man made lake that was not there during the Civil War.

By the time Tyler was there in La Grange/West Point the war was winding down and Federal cavalry units were trying to find ways to get in behind Confederate lines and harrass the populace. Most of the able bodied men in the South were away fighting and to defend this area Tyler and other walking wounded and young boys fought the battle of West Point on April 16, 1865. He was killed in the battle, such as it was. Considering you had men without arms and legs fighting and shooting old single shot, black powder rifles at young and fit men carrying the latest Henry repeating rifles that could fire 15 times without reloading. The fact the Union/Federal forces won the battle isn't the question. The question is why it wasn't a bigger slaughter by the Union over the Confederate forces?

Certain things about Tyler cannot be disputed. He was not a mean or overbearing man. The reports of him by his superiors and those who worked alongside him show the exact opposite.

He was wounded in Alabama and then was sent across the river into Georgia where he remained convalesing until his death on April 16, 1865. At no time did he cross over into Alabama with his men or alone for that matter. Point of fact, he had no men. All that remained in West Point were militia of old men and very young boys. The only advantage they had was knowing the area, but that would not sustain them over a long campaign, where their enemy could be resupplied but they could not.

By the time of the Civil War, there were NO Indians in the area claimed in the story. That area of the Southeast had been home to the Creek/Cherokee people and those had been moved by President Andrew Jackson along the Trail of Tears into Oklahoma, many years before.

Indians did escape into the areas of unsettled Florida where they lived with the Seminoles and other Cherokees escaped ino the Smokie Mountains of North Carolina where they remain today. But there would have been none in that area of Alabama and Georgia during 1865.

Nice story, but it takes a sliver of truth and then runs with it.

Why is it the only ghost stories in the South deal with the Civil War?
Why is it the only ghost stories in New England deal with the Revolutionary War?
Why is it the only ghost stories out West deal with Indians?
Why is it the only ghost stories in Chicago deal with Al Capone?

So we're supposed to believe that NOTHING else has EVER happened in these areas?

PT Barnum would be proud!!

[Murfreesboro]

Well, the Bell Witch story in Adams, TN, is quite famous, and that has nothing to do with the Civil War, predates it by decades.

[VanHelsingStandIn]

I know Murf. I was being facetious. I've been to the Bell Witch site. I was stationed at Ft Campbell near Clarksville and went over to Adams several times, and met a few people who told me a few a stories.

The Red River had some great fishing in it, and I kept going back to fish and every time I went I heard a little bit more.

I played football against MTSU back in 1979, btw.

My point is that depending on where you live in the US, it often dictates what kind of ghost stories you hear. Very often the best lie has a grain or two of truth in it.

For example. Off the Georgia coast is the island of Saint Simmons. Many ghost stories come from the island and I spent a few weeks there visiting family and doing a little research.

One story tells of a slave ship that docked at Goulds Inlet and was offloading a large number of slaves who had been sent to the island to work the rice fields that were abundant cash producers back in the day.

The story says how these slaves had come straight to St. Simmons from Africa and upon reaching the island, were offloaded at Goulds Inlet. The story continues to say how these slaves, men, women and children refused to be subjugated and so despite being chained they all joined hands and waded into the ocean singing gospell hymns and drowned themselves en mass.

Very sad and touching story, and to this day, on nights of the full moon, you can see the ghosts of these people and hear them singing gospell hymns as they wade into the ocean and drown themselves.

So there I was. Sitting up in the sand dunes of Goulds inlet on Saint Simmons island, Georgia waiting under a full moon to see the ghosts.

Never saw any ghosts although a young couple showed up and decided to get VERY WILD about 10 feet from where I was sitting. In between their moans and passion, I began to realize how stupid I was.

One, because I was sitting all alone looking for ghosts on a very beautiful island, when I could walk about 3/4 a mile to a real swinging nightclub and maybe find myself some passion too!

Two, because I began to FINALLY remember my history and a little thing called common sense. Slaves were NEVER brought to St. Simmons Island. They would have been taken to Savannah or Charleston. There they would have been taken off the ships and sold.

As horrible as slavery was, there was a very strict protocal that was followed. There is no history of slaves EVER having been brought straight to Saint Simmons Island from Africa.

Three, these would have been slaves from West Africa, which guarantees they were not Christian. So they would have not been singing hymns as they were drowning themselves.

Four, the fact they were West African also ensured they did not speak English and would have not being singing a hymn to a religion they did not follow, in a language they did not speak.

Five, regardless of where these slaves were brought. Regardless of what language they spoke. Regardless of what religion they followed; they were property now. Very valuable property. There is zero chance the slavers would have stood idly by while their money walked into the ocean and drowned themselves.

They would have been stopped long before they could have done this. If people bother to put forth the effort and look, they will find there is no record of a mass suicide anywhere in Georgia by slaves during this period.

See. Take a few facts. Add some EMOTION, despite it not being true. People will believe it.

[Murfreesboro]

Yeah, even before I read your explanation, I was thinking, Wait--were they Christian, and straight from Africa?

You know, there was a lot of discomfort among the American & European populations about slavery, long before it was abolished. I'm talking as far back as the 1600s, people were questioning that practice. Usually they did so because they couldn't square it with Christianity. So that ghost story about the slaves' drowning themselves while singing gospel hymns may say more about white guilt than about the actual behavior of the slaves.

Of course ghost stories will always build on the history of whatever area where they're being told. In fact, a local story-teller said one year, near Halloween, that he considers ghost stories another way to convey history, because you always have to set the story in a time and place, usually long ago.

So you played football against MTSU? My second son is a freshman there this fall.

I've never been to Adams, TN, myself, although I have wanted to go for some time. Maybe this fall.

[VanHelsingStandIn]

I think you hit the nail on the head with the white guilt angle. What I was trying to point out is that depending where you live, if there is a chance to make money, they will fall back on old reliable type stories. It would make you believe that there are no ghosts from the present time anywhere. In order to be a ghost, you must come from a generation or point in time that is well known and doesn't require a great deal of thought. Another big reason I'm a sceptic on ghosts and ghost stories; going back to the Civil War...

A person or persons claims they saw a ghost of a Confederate soldier. You ask how they know it was a Confederate soldier, and the response is, he was wearing a grey uniform.

In point of fact, due to not having the money or resources in the south, the common soldier fighting for the south did not wear grey. It is estimated that less than 9% of all Confederate soldiers wore grey uniforms. Yet when you hear the stories, the soldier was dressed in grey. So does that mean only the 9% who wore grey came back as ghosts? Or maybe the person who claims they saw a ghost are using their imagination based on movies and TV shows and see what they want to see?

I figured with a name like Murfreesboro, you were a Tennessee gal, and knew about MTSU.

I have family in Memphis and Jackson. Yea, I played football back when they wore leather helmets!! Probably why I'm so crazy today!

[Murfreesboro]

Actually, I'm a Mississippi gal, transplanted to Tennessee. My husband is a Tennessee guy, though.

I have also lived in Texas, Georgia, and Virginia.

[VanHelsingStandIn]

A Mississippi gal! Uh-oh! Stay away from those casinos in Tunica and Biloxi!! You'll probably run into some of my family!

[VanHelsingStandIn]

Did you get a chance to visit many haunted places while living in Virginia? A good friend who I'm convinced would never hoax anything took some pictures in the late 80's of what might have been ghosts.

There was a horse farm not far from DC that was kept in immaculate condition and so he and his wife stopped to take a picture. It had this long winding driveway and his wife was standing off to the left where you could see the house in the background and the stables to the right. They both swear there was nobody else around, and after they got the film developed, you see what looks very much like a man standing in a pasture near the stables and he's looking at the camera. There are trees nearby and the shadows can play tricks on you, and they thought it was shadows causing the picture to look like a man. But who knows?

The other was even stranger. They were driving by an entrance road to the CIA at Langley and it was a private and posted road, so they took the picture as they drove by wanting to get the CIA sign in the background. It was at night and my friend slowed down the car as his wife took the picture. Again they swear there was nobody else around, but when they got the film back, there appears to be a man in a coat standing in the median of the road. In this case, he has his back to them. But its a strange photo to be sure. Maybe it was a security guy? Then again....Who knows!

[Murfreesboro]

I lived in VA from 1986-1994, first in Richmond, and later (most of the time I was there) in Staunton, up in the Shenandoah Valley. I got around the state as much as I could, although I was working back then, first at the Univ. of Richmond, and then at Mary Baldwin College. I was an English prof. I spent a fair amount of time in Colonial Williamsburg and at Monticello, went to D.C. a number of times for various reasons, and visited Appamattox Courthouse once (which is a community, not a courthouse, something that surprised me--that is just the name of the settlement).

I never had any personal encounters with the supernatural at any of these places, but the ghost stories are everywhere, especially in the Valley. The girls at MBC were convinced one of the dorms was haunted. (Amusingly, they were convinced it was haunted by the ghost of the actress Tallulah Bankhead, who had been a student there.) Also, I spent some time at Lee Chapel on the campus of Washington & Lee, down in Lexington. That's where Robert E. Lee is buried, although the upper story has a stage. My husband was appearing in a community theater production that was rehearsing there, so I had time to wander. There are lots of ghost stories about Lee Chapel, too.

VA has such a rich history, both Revolutionary & Civil War era. Lots of living and dying up there.

[VanHelsingStandIn]

Washington and Lee has got to have one of the most beautiful campuses I've ever seen. The fact it is also where Lee is buried, brings the greatness of the man even closer to you if you're a student.

My SATs were NO WHERE NEAR HIGH enough to try and apply there. Plus back then it was an all male school, and that just wasn't what I wanted in a college!

[Pumpkin_Man]

Adrian, I quite agree with you. It is disgusting to say the least, and that's why I want to move out of Illinois when I retire, to a state that has no state income tax, sales tax or property taxes. Namby Pamby Illinois taxes me on my income, and then they turn around and tax me when I spend my money, and then I have to pay almost 2000 dollars a year rent to live in my own house. Then they won't even let me light off firecrackers on the 4th of July.

Mike